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	<title>Comments on: A Language Poet You’ll Enjoy Reading</title>
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	<link>https://thethepoetry.com/2011/01/a-language-poet-you%e2%80%99ll-enjoy-reading/</link>
	<description>Where was it one first heard of the truth?</description>
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		<title>By: My Blog &#187; Clark Coolidge&#8217;s This Time We Are Both</title>
		<link>https://thethepoetry.com/2011/01/a-language-poet-you%e2%80%99ll-enjoy-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-1219</link>
		<dc:creator>My Blog &#187; Clark Coolidge&#8217;s This Time We Are Both</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jul 2011 14:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thethepoetry.com/?p=3665#comment-1219</guid>
		<description>[...] posted on The The Poetry in January 2011.     Previous article   [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] posted on The The Poetry in January 2011.     Previous article   [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brooks Lampe</title>
		<link>https://thethepoetry.com/2011/01/a-language-poet-you%e2%80%99ll-enjoy-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-979</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooks Lampe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 23:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thethepoetry.com/?p=3665#comment-979</guid>
		<description>Point taken. I agree that Elizabethan poetry is just as difficult to get into to because it is just as artificially constructed, objectively speaking. But reader&#039;s aren&#039;t objective. Elizabethan poetry is established; language poetry is (relatively) new and still marginal. Of course my relaxed journalistic trope would sound odd out of context. --Or perhaps I am simply under-appreciating the intelligence of TheThe&#039;s readership.

On the other hand, while I do not perceive myself playing the role of the evangelist for poetry, I&#039;ll half-heartedly wear that hat on behalf of language poetry because I personally enjoy much of it and believe it is important. I suppose I could think of situations in which I would say, &quot;unlike other Elizabethans, here&#039;s a sonnet writer you&#039;ll actually enjoy&quot;? Here&#039;s one: My family has no idea what I do as an Elizabethan scholar and doesn&#039;t have too much patience for literature, few of them having a college degree. But they want to try to understand what I do, so I give them something slightly easier at first. This, in fact, is my social situation with contemporary poetry.

On that note, I am very interested in what it must be like to grow up in a house with language poetry books. How do you yourself evaluate your perception of the difficulty (and quality, and profundity, etc) of language poetry given your unusual amount of childhood exposure? I imagine the vast majority of readers are introduced to language poetry academically and intellectually and as adults. Do you find that your critical opinion often differs from that of your poetic colleagues?

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Point taken. I agree that Elizabethan poetry is just as difficult to get into to because it is just as artificially constructed, objectively speaking. But reader&#8217;s aren&#8217;t objective. Elizabethan poetry is established; language poetry is (relatively) new and still marginal. Of course my relaxed journalistic trope would sound odd out of context. &#8211;Or perhaps I am simply under-appreciating the intelligence of TheThe&#8217;s readership.</p>
<p>On the other hand, while I do not perceive myself playing the role of the evangelist for poetry, I&#8217;ll half-heartedly wear that hat on behalf of language poetry because I personally enjoy much of it and believe it is important. I suppose I could think of situations in which I would say, &#8220;unlike other Elizabethans, here&#8217;s a sonnet writer you&#8217;ll actually enjoy&#8221;? Here&#8217;s one: My family has no idea what I do as an Elizabethan scholar and doesn&#8217;t have too much patience for literature, few of them having a college degree. But they want to try to understand what I do, so I give them something slightly easier at first. This, in fact, is my social situation with contemporary poetry.</p>
<p>On that note, I am very interested in what it must be like to grow up in a house with language poetry books. How do you yourself evaluate your perception of the difficulty (and quality, and profundity, etc) of language poetry given your unusual amount of childhood exposure? I imagine the vast majority of readers are introduced to language poetry academically and intellectually and as adults. Do you find that your critical opinion often differs from that of your poetic colleagues?</p>
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		<title>By: Brooks Lampe</title>
		<link>https://thethepoetry.com/2011/01/a-language-poet-you%e2%80%99ll-enjoy-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-978</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooks Lampe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 22:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thethepoetry.com/?p=3665#comment-978</guid>
		<description>For what it&#039;s worth, the NPF conference on the 1970s featured a ton of both Language poets and 2nd gen. New York poets--and the distinction between them was there but not sharp. Coolidge gave a reading--wonderful! But it was first exposure to him and it took me a while to get into it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, the NPF conference on the 1970s featured a ton of both Language poets and 2nd gen. New York poets&#8211;and the distinction between them was there but not sharp. Coolidge gave a reading&#8211;wonderful! But it was first exposure to him and it took me a while to get into it.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>https://thethepoetry.com/2011/01/a-language-poet-you%e2%80%99ll-enjoy-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-973</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thethepoetry.com/?p=3665#comment-973</guid>
		<description>i read brooks&#039; title as tongue in cheek, mostly. i think implicit in brooks&#039; title is the idea that certain poems are more readily accessible, and therefore more readily enjoyable. we need not read him as saying, though, that the rest of language poetry is not enjoyable.

tom also brings up an interesting point: i haven&#039;t thought too much about the connections between language poetry and the new york school, but it would be an interesting experiment to see how different schools of writing can give us access to others, despite the wildly different assumptions/intentions those schools might bring to their writing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i read brooks&#8217; title as tongue in cheek, mostly. i think implicit in brooks&#8217; title is the idea that certain poems are more readily accessible, and therefore more readily enjoyable. we need not read him as saying, though, that the rest of language poetry is not enjoyable.</p>
<p>tom also brings up an interesting point: i haven&#8217;t thought too much about the connections between language poetry and the new york school, but it would be an interesting experiment to see how different schools of writing can give us access to others, despite the wildly different assumptions/intentions those schools might bring to their writing.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>https://thethepoetry.com/2011/01/a-language-poet-you%e2%80%99ll-enjoy-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-974</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thethepoetry.com/?p=3665#comment-974</guid>
		<description>i read brooks&#039; title as tongue in cheek, mostly. i think implicit in brooks&#039; title is the idea that certain poems are more readily accessible, and therefore more readily enjoyable. we need not read him as saying, though, that the rest of language poetry is not enjoyable.

tom also brings up an interesting point: i haven&#039;t thought too much about the connections between language poetry and the new york school, but it would be an interesting experiment to see how different schools of writing can give us access to others, despite the wildly different assumptions/intentions those schools might bring to their writing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i read brooks&#8217; title as tongue in cheek, mostly. i think implicit in brooks&#8217; title is the idea that certain poems are more readily accessible, and therefore more readily enjoyable. we need not read him as saying, though, that the rest of language poetry is not enjoyable.</p>
<p>tom also brings up an interesting point: i haven&#8217;t thought too much about the connections between language poetry and the new york school, but it would be an interesting experiment to see how different schools of writing can give us access to others, despite the wildly different assumptions/intentions those schools might bring to their writing.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Silliman</title>
		<link>https://thethepoetry.com/2011/01/a-language-poet-you%e2%80%99ll-enjoy-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-970</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Silliman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thethepoetry.com/?p=3665#comment-970</guid>
		<description>Thanks Tom, that helps. That&#039;s really interesting. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Tom, that helps. That&#8217;s really interesting. </p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Silliman</title>
		<link>https://thethepoetry.com/2011/01/a-language-poet-you%e2%80%99ll-enjoy-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-969</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Silliman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thethepoetry.com/?p=3665#comment-969</guid>
		<description>I realize, Brooks, that my perception of the difficulty of language poetry is probably seriously skewed, since my uncle&#039;s books were the poetry books we had in the house when I was a kid ,  but do you really think that language poetry is more difficult than, say, Elizabethan sonnet writers? 

And, even just granting that Elizabethan sonnet writers are difficult, and a lot of readers, even smart and educated ones, have trouble with their poems, would you have written a review of, say, Philip Sidney, that said, &quot;unlike other Elizabethans, here&#039;s a sonnet writer you&#039;ll actually enjoy&quot;?

It seems like a strange move.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I realize, Brooks, that my perception of the difficulty of language poetry is probably seriously skewed, since my uncle&#8217;s books were the poetry books we had in the house when I was a kid ,  but do you really think that language poetry is more difficult than, say, Elizabethan sonnet writers? </p>
<p>And, even just granting that Elizabethan sonnet writers are difficult, and a lot of readers, even smart and educated ones, have trouble with their poems, would you have written a review of, say, Philip Sidney, that said, &#8220;unlike other Elizabethans, here&#8217;s a sonnet writer you&#8217;ll actually enjoy&#8221;?</p>
<p>It seems like a strange move.</p>
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		<title>By: Brooks Lampe</title>
		<link>https://thethepoetry.com/2011/01/a-language-poet-you%e2%80%99ll-enjoy-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-968</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooks Lampe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 02:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thethepoetry.com/?p=3665#comment-968</guid>
		<description>Tom, you&#039;re right. Coolidge&#039;s &quot;family relations&quot; are 2nd-gen. NY school. But if a man off the street read Coolidge, wouldn&#039;t she put his work in the same stack as Silliman&#039;s The Alphabet or Andrews&#039; Lip Service (broadly speaking)?

Daniel, yes, I was somewhat facetiously imagining that the majority of educated readers--even poetry readers--are slow to warm up to language poetry&#039;s unique offerings. For such folks, I suggest Coolidge as a good place to start. And yes, some language poetry is very accessible, but the majority of it is tough. Even so, a language poet&#039;s talent is not proportional to the difficulty of reading him, so I don&#039;t concede that Coolidge is a lesser star just because he is an entry point into non-syntactic writing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, you&#8217;re right. Coolidge&#8217;s &#8220;family relations&#8221; are 2nd-gen. NY school. But if a man off the street read Coolidge, wouldn&#8217;t she put his work in the same stack as Silliman&#8217;s The Alphabet or Andrews&#8217; Lip Service (broadly speaking)?</p>
<p>Daniel, yes, I was somewhat facetiously imagining that the majority of educated readers&#8211;even poetry readers&#8211;are slow to warm up to language poetry&#8217;s unique offerings. For such folks, I suggest Coolidge as a good place to start. And yes, some language poetry is very accessible, but the majority of it is tough. Even so, a language poet&#8217;s talent is not proportional to the difficulty of reading him, so I don&#8217;t concede that Coolidge is a lesser star just because he is an entry point into non-syntactic writing.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Orange</title>
		<link>https://thethepoetry.com/2011/01/a-language-poet-you%e2%80%99ll-enjoy-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-967</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Orange</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jan 2011 23:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thethepoetry.com/?p=3665#comment-967</guid>
		<description>daniel, technically speaking brooks lampe is wrong to call coolidge a language poet. coolidge began publishing in the mid-1960s when most of the language poets were still teenagers. he is a closer contemporary of the second-generation new york school poets (like ted berrigan, bill berkson, joeseph ceravolo and tom clark) and that was the group he was most frequently associated with originally. by the mid-1970s many language poets, including bruce andrews and ron silliman, were quite taken with coolidge&#039;s work and had friendly personal relationships with him. nevertheless, they often brought philosophical and political (post-structuralist, marxist) bearings to his work for which coolidge himself had little interest or proclivity. throughout his career and to the extent possible, coolidge himself has resisted affiliations with groups, schools and movements.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>daniel, technically speaking brooks lampe is wrong to call coolidge a language poet. coolidge began publishing in the mid-1960s when most of the language poets were still teenagers. he is a closer contemporary of the second-generation new york school poets (like ted berrigan, bill berkson, joeseph ceravolo and tom clark) and that was the group he was most frequently associated with originally. by the mid-1970s many language poets, including bruce andrews and ron silliman, were quite taken with coolidge&#8217;s work and had friendly personal relationships with him. nevertheless, they often brought philosophical and political (post-structuralist, marxist) bearings to his work for which coolidge himself had little interest or proclivity. throughout his career and to the extent possible, coolidge himself has resisted affiliations with groups, schools and movements.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Silliman</title>
		<link>https://thethepoetry.com/2011/01/a-language-poet-you%e2%80%99ll-enjoy-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-964</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Silliman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Jan 2011 05:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thethepoetry.com/?p=3665#comment-964</guid>
		<description>Coolidge is great, but, Brooks, this review is kind of cut-off-your-nose-to-spite-your-face, with regards to language poetry. 

It&#039;s really not THAT inaccessible, and there&#039;re many places one can start, but even if it was basically impossible to read except as a kind of exercise, this still seems like an odd strategy. You wouldn&#039;t, I imagine, promote some Shakespeare contemporary as &quot;A Sonnet Poet You&#039;ll Really Enjoy,&quot; or a dadaist as &quot;A Dadaist who Won&#039;t Make You Say Your Child Could Have Done That.&quot;

Maybe my question, reading this review, is it, do you think, that makes Coolidge a language poet, and what is the relationship between him and that school?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coolidge is great, but, Brooks, this review is kind of cut-off-your-nose-to-spite-your-face, with regards to language poetry. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s really not THAT inaccessible, and there&#8217;re many places one can start, but even if it was basically impossible to read except as a kind of exercise, this still seems like an odd strategy. You wouldn&#8217;t, I imagine, promote some Shakespeare contemporary as &#8220;A Sonnet Poet You&#8217;ll Really Enjoy,&#8221; or a dadaist as &#8220;A Dadaist who Won&#8217;t Make You Say Your Child Could Have Done That.&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe my question, reading this review, is it, do you think, that makes Coolidge a language poet, and what is the relationship between him and that school?</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Weil via Facebook</title>
		<link>https://thethepoetry.com/2011/01/a-language-poet-you%e2%80%99ll-enjoy-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-961</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Weil via Facebook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Jan 2011 17:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thethepoetry.com/?p=3665#comment-961</guid>
		<description>I first saw his work in young poets of 1965, a great anthology that included Simic, Kelly, Kathleen Frazier, Dianne Wakoski, etc, etc. The youngest in the anthology was Louise Gluck, twenty one at the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I first saw his work in young poets of 1965, a great anthology that included Simic, Kelly, Kathleen Frazier, Dianne Wakoski, etc, etc. The youngest in the anthology was Louise Gluck, twenty one at the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Weil via Facebook</title>
		<link>https://thethepoetry.com/2011/01/a-language-poet-you%e2%80%99ll-enjoy-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-962</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Weil via Facebook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Jan 2011 17:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thethepoetry.com/?p=3665#comment-962</guid>
		<description>I first saw his work in young poets of 1965, a great anthology that included Simic, Kelly, Kathleen Frazier, Dianne Wakoski, etc, etc. The youngest in the anthology was Louise Gluck, twenty one at the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I first saw his work in young poets of 1965, a great anthology that included Simic, Kelly, Kathleen Frazier, Dianne Wakoski, etc, etc. The youngest in the anthology was Louise Gluck, twenty one at the time.</p>
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